Halloween season is approaching, and as the days draw to a close, our minds will no doubt turn to everything is messy. With that in mind, io9 knew we wanted to talk to Marc Hartzman, the author of a new release Casting Out Spirits: The Journey of Our Spiritual and Spiritual Pursuit.
Chasing Spirits exploring the history of the people’s faith, you have thought, ghosts. It also looks at how people have tried to pierce the veil and communication and those who have lived for many years – and how, how often, skeptical they begin to question their magical claims. The result is a flexible and consistent version of our telephone conversation with Hartzman.
Cheryl Eddy, io9: You have written a number of books on nonsensical topics (strange things found on eBay, sportsmen, the strange history of Mars, and our fascination with Mars). What led you to the spirits as your next topic?
Marc Hartzman: Yes, it does fall into this wonderful world. As you may know, I love this war theme. I do a page called Foreign Historian, which contains a variety of articles. Lots of stories of what happens there. I just love these things – I’ve had a lot of weird and weird things since I was a kid. So ghosts were part of that, and then there are a few things that I think are connected to. First of all, I’ve been plagued by worries about death – not, I think, of death in particular, but more about how it happens, burial, and whether burial is not wrong. Like, what if it’s a big mistake, and our whole lives are blocked, we still have the knowledge, but we can’t do anything because we’re stuck in a five-meter box on the floor? This is always difficult. [Laughs.] I wrote another book called Oliver Cromwell’s Stubborn Theme: A Memorial, such issues affect little. But the idea of “Is there survival, does our knowledge continue?”, Is something I have always wanted to know.
For the past few years I have been involved in the occult since the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and I have only taken a few books since then, read a few stories, and wrote Weird Historian essays – it is just a fun time. It’s funny because you can check out my last book, The Big Book of Mars, and this Chasing Spirits i think there is no connection, but a lot of connection in my mind. One of these is that it is about the same time in the late 19th century, the early 19th century, in modern Victoria. There were all these amazing things happening and different beliefs, with new technologies where all the new things seemed to be possible. It must have been an exciting time! The same thing happens with spiritism – you have millions people who were believers, thinking that we can communicate with the dead. It was not even a question, it was like, “Hey, now we know! There is life after death and this is what people say.” The roots or seeds of the book are always present, but the movement of the spirits caused me to dig deeper, and the book became like a branch from there.
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io9: Spiritism is a major theme and the book is divided into four sections: future ghosts or legends throughout history, spiritism, deception, and the occult relationship. Why did you decide to divide the topic into sections?
Hartzman: I thought it accomplished a lot of good, you know? I did not write the book in order; I started with the occult, and I think it’s important to show that it wasn’t new, obvious. Spiritism, as you describe it, goes back to the basics. I think it is important to show the ancient traditions and their beliefs, and go through the ancient times, purgatory, Christian beliefs – I find all these changes to be very interesting, to Swedenborgianism and various magic and so on. It leads to a modern magical movement, through Andrew Jackson Davis — who preceded the Fox sisters, where things began in 1848.
There’s a bit more to the occult and technology because you get into it, like, William Mumler, first photographer, I felt like I was separating him from professionalism. This gave me the opportunity to tell about some kind of spiritism, which is trying to capture them — whether they believe they are hunting for them, or just to benefit people they think they are, such as photographers. But again, spiritual painting goes back to what I already said about new technology and new beliefs and things that might be possible. The camera comes out, and maybe it can see things we can’t, and why not believe this is possible? It’s all new, isn’t it? But then you get into Hereward Carrington, you know, all his weapons trying to get ghosts and people he was working with, down to the things you see everything[[[[hunting for spirits]Today’s radio is equipped with all kinds of tools and spirits. Much of this kind comes from Strict: “Oh, can you use a machine to take ghosts?” That race ushered in a new generation of spirit hunters.
I think all of this is interesting, and it also gave me the opportunity to do a lot of scientific research. This technology is fascinating in what it can do, as well as how it can help show that ghosts are not ghosts. As an an EMF reader he may not recognize a ghost but can discern why think you saw a spirit there. Because there is this something is happening, which is why the electrical components are removed from the plates – mainly due to this boat bank behind the wall of the house, using the example of a medical professional who described to me in this book.
I also love the “infrasound” stories that Vic Tandy discovered in the late 70s and early 80s – he discovered this quantity at 18.9 Hz which is not something we know, but it affects the brain and it shakes the eyes and makes people see darker faces and feel like something else. its of course. He finds that this has been happening in a cathedral in the cathedral since the 14th century. “Oh, is there an ultrasound here? Perhaps that is why some are hearing this. ”He did not mean – and he did say – that does not mean everything, but it does mean a few things, which is interesting.
That’s why I really like that science can deal with some things, but not all of them, and there’s still this whole world of mystery left as we continue to learn and advance our technology. And I think you have a hiding place in the ghost book. There are thousands of hiding places, then they are mixed up trying to tell well-known stories and stay in depth, as well as cover up things that aren’t really known, trying to create unique stories in the real world.
io9: For all the people in this book who claim to have seen or connected with ghosts, there are many skeptics and deceivers, regardless of the time you are discussing. Why do you think that is so?
Hartzman: It is one of those things that we cannot be sure of. No one can guarantee the survival of the knowledge. There is no technology that can hold this for sure. No machine can tell us “Yes, this will be obvious.” That’s why I think this should leave skeptics at all … in the spirit world, most skeptics were magicians because they knew the types of tricks that people use. They want to expose these people. And recently you have people like the late James Randi who can reveal more about this and he was a great skeptic.
There will always be people who believe it is wrong, and are often able to prove that there is fraud. This was Houdini’s main thing, they thought it was a dangerous thing witches do to people, to take their money by pretending to talk to their lost loved one and to take advantage of their grief, and trick them into something and steal from them in that mindset. He thought that was wrong. In his mind’s eye, he said that if you come to the magic show, and pay for a ticket, there is an understanding among us that what you see is false. It’s a different relationship with the audience than the medium — so I think maybe justice is affected, to some degree, when it comes to that.
io9: Are you skeptical or a believer, and did working on this book change your mind?
Hartzman: That is a valid question. I would say I am a believer more than a skeptic, but I am not sold 100%. I would say that working on this book changed my mind a little bit, and I would say it pushed me a little bit towards the believer. One of the reasons is that there are a number of stories in this book where there are skeptics who explain things in detail, and apparently there are magicians who have explained various tricks from witch doctors. A lot of things come out like, “Oh and how he did? Is that all he did?” Or like “Oh, that’s nonsense.” Some of them came from friends I talked to about the book and said, “I have a spiritual story,” and all these strange stories came out of things that didn’t seem logical. There are things like this that leave you wondering, and you don’t know how to explain.
I also think it’s more fun to believe than not. It is wonderful to believe and hope. There is something wonderful. I look like, “Wow, you’ve seen the ghost!” It should be a wonderful time! [You] Now know that there is something else, and this should bring great peace, knowing when [you] to die, it is not over and it is not just a mass that is thrown into a box and fed by worms or something. It’s inspiring! I think there are enough stories that make me think there is something, and I like to believe it.
Casting Out Spirits: The Journey of Our Spiritual and Spiritual Pursuit author Marc Hartzman has been released on September 28. You can order a copy Pano.
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